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The Diversity and Inclusion Director recently held an interview with PMI Rochester Vice President of Finance Debra Jacyszyn. Debra is a retired Manager of Global General Services & Solution Delivery.

Debra agreed to share her perspective of the intersectionality of gender and other minority statuses as they affected her career and that of her mother’s.

Debra: Diversity bias and exclusion has existed for a very long time. I think of my Mother who graduated college in 1947 and started looking for a job as a teacher. She was married and Catholic. Therefore, potential employers declined her application because they thought she would quickly have children.

Wendy: It is beneficial that job applicants no longer must answer questions about marital status, children, etc. Still, some employers continue to make assumptions about women’s dedication to their career.

D: My Mother graduated second in her class. She had immigrant grandparents that raised her. Because of them, she developed a really strong belief in education as the way to exceed in life. She also taught me that life lessons and education are critically important, along with perseverance and striving to be the best. 

D: In addition to my Mother’s marital status causing her issues getting a job, her name did too. A friend who interviewed for a teaching position was declined and mentioned the position to my Mother. My Mother previously applied and called shortly thereafter to schedule an interview.  The principal admitted that she hadn’t called my Mother because she didn’t know how to pronounce her name. Once she learned the pronunciation, my Mother did get the job, and she and the principal became lifelong friends.

W: I have read studies that suggest that more American parents are choosing gender neutral names for their daughters to increase their daughters’ success later in life. I have also read articles that recommend that minorities choose more traditional English names for their children to increase their chances for being called in for interviews. I hadn’t thought about how this has been a problem for generations.

W: Was the difficult-to-pronounce name and potential for having children the only things that affected your mom’s job search?

D: With her last name, there was discrimination based on nationality and religion. She was a Polish/Italian/Married Catholic.

W: How did your mother’s story and her interest in education affect you?

D: Those things set the stage for me in the future. I’ve always thought hard work and education could help people grow and get ahead.

W: Is education and hard work enough? Doesn’t conscious and unconscious bias still inhibit people today?

D: Good point. I fortunately worked for a company that was balanced regarding employees and diversity. The company rewarded all employees for the challenges and extra work taken on.

W: Tell more about your experiences at Xerox.

D: I started working at Xerox in 1982. They paid for me to obtain a Master’s Degree at the University of Rochester. I experienced significant career advancement within Xerox and so did many others because of their approach to education and hard work.

W: What was the culture like there during that time?

D: We had both on-shore and off-shore cultures, such as Xerox of India, of Singapore and of Brazil. I emphasized a team focus, through both good and bad times. Xerox Information Management (XIM) was particularly known for being a balanced workforce. One thing we did with our partner EDS was to learn more about other cultures. EDS shared presentations about other cultures and I scheduled lunches together at various cultural restaurants.

W: How do you think Xerox benefited from having employees from diverse backgrounds?

D: The benefits came from how people approach projects. As a Project Manager, I would leverage the different perspectives. We were doing Agile before it was popular. Great lessons were that Project Managers should be open-minded to letting people explore their differences and perspectives, and Project Managers should exploit the benefits of those differences. With my teams, I emphasized successes and working together. My approach was that I did not believe in failure. By our working together, we would be successful.

W: I worked in XIM for 12 months and was delighted to see many women - and specifically women of color – in high ranking positions. That isn’t the case in many companies. Can you tell me how that came about?

D: Yes. Early on, Xerox concentrated on a Balanced Workforce to compete in a Global Economy.  Printing Systems Group went a step further and devoted a sponsor from the Senior Management Team to promote and recognize women in the workplace. Xerox continued to pay higher salaries for those who earned degrees, for both men and women alike. Xerox also had a mentoring program through which I had excellent male and female mentors to assist my career growth.

W: When you were hired out of college, did Xerox pay the same for men and women?

D: They focused on hiring single women and married men because they were considered the most stable employees. Hiring salaries were the same for men and women.  Later, I received two salary increases to lift my salary and it was never as high as the men I worked with. Also, several of us women felt that if we did not have an MBA degree, we would not have been promoted to Confidential Ranks.

W: That really shows that even in diverse companies, there still isn’t an even playing field, or there is a perception that there isn’t. Which reminds me that you had told me an interesting story about your mother related to income. Would you share it?

D: When my Mother went to get Social Security after retirement, she received less money than my father. She paid in more than my father. Why you ask? The annuity tables for calculating social security favor men.  My Mother wanted to know where she could sign up for the Equal Rights Amendment!

W: I’m sure she did! What else do you want to tell me about your career?

D: I once turned down a job because of work-family balance – my Mother was ill and my Father later had accident. Both men and women make those choices, but more often they choice falls onto women. I was fortunate that Xerox supported me and others working remotely a couple days per week or if weather was bad.

W: What other advice can you offer Project Managers and employers going forward?

D: I suggest embracing continuous education/learning, employing a balanced work force, employing onshore/offshore teams and having a diverse range of ages in employees, including recent college graduates. Also, it’s important that candidates not just be knowledgeable/capable, but be a good team member that are also enthusiastic, and willing to learn.  It really is all about teamwork and working together to accomplish projects.